Writing your councilmember to strengthen nuisance laws doesn't mean the old lady is going to get kicked out of that house (I actually doubt a single guy selling drugs out of the alley, who has never been caught by police, would qualify as a "nuicance" under a nuicance law. It sounds like things have to be pretty extreme--large numbers of police responses, etc--to be a nuisance). What it will do is hopefully give police and prosecuters a tool to deal with situations like the Aurora Motels or houses that are the sites of repeated crimes/drug deals/etc such as the one a couple of us were discussing upthread--the one with dogfights/prostitution/known criminal activity for years now.
PhinneyWood Forum » Open Forum
Drug Dealing on Dayton (the Sequel)
(93 posts)-
Christy
MemberPosted 10 months ago # -
artman51
MemberAny progress on solving this problem? Is the activity in the alley between 1st NW and Greenwood near 81st street? Why do the police have time to set up speed traps on 3NW, but not catch a drug dealer near a school?
Posted 10 months ago # -
etta
MemberI hate to be cynical, but speed traps = $$. Just saw a cop pull over someone this morning in front of St. John's (half a block from the alley).
Posted 10 months ago # -
SPG
MemberA lot of the time the cops will use the speed trap or other traffic stop to create a search opportunity. "What's that under your seat?" "Mind if I search your car?" "What's this?" "Where did you buy this?" Bingo, a search warrant with a cooperating witness.
I'd hope the police are doing this, but who knows...they seem pretty ineffectual half the time around here, but they have been getting a little better lately.Posted 10 months ago # -
stmalone
MemberDrug dealing is the topic in our neighborhood lately in the region of 85th - 80th, east of Greenwood. Saw a drug deal happen yesterday afternoon. I've started to approach people asking them if I can help them/are they lost. We've hung up signs in our neigborhood too. Apparently, people make contact at the Aarco and Jack in the Box and then head over here to complete the transaction.
Posted 10 months ago # -
OneGuy
MemberI've seen several drug deals just off Dayton. Two things that seem common are:
1. Very agitated behavior by a person on foot...talking loudly, pacing around, crossing from one corner to the other and obviously waiting for someone.
2. A car idling on a corner.
Both of these things immediately draw my attention and I usually loiter nearby to see what happens next. Several times these behaviors have turned into drug deals, and once the agitated guy saw me standing on the corner obviously watching him and he hiked on up toward Greenwood.Posted 10 months ago # -
etta
MemberIt appears to me that the Greenwood School alley dealer has really slowed down, if not discontinued his dealing. Haven't seen any action for weeks. The alley neighbors are a great group of people, united in the goal of putting him out of business.
Posted 10 months ago # -
MikePhoto
MemberIt seems like the Greenwood School alley dealer's business has picked up again. More and more people wandering up the alley, and he now has a whole other group that goes in from the Greenwood side. They usually park on 1st and walk over; some wait on the sidewalk and make a call, then go back to the place. As I was leaving for work a few days ago there was a Yellow cab pulling up to the house on the alley side; no passenger, just the driver. I have seen this cab a few times now, and he never picks up or drops off anyone here. I'll try to get the car number next time I see it and contact the taxi company.
I think we may need to get another call in to Officer Testerman. Seems like the little chat he had with the dealer and his mother a while back may have worn off. Let's see if we can end this before school starts again.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberYep. The Greenwood School Alley Dealer is definitely back in full force. There have been a ton of sketchy people coming up & down the alley lately...I've seen the cab, the silver Mercedes, the numerous people coming in & out the basement apartment. We all have to make sure to call the non-emergency North Precinct (206-625-5011) whenever somebody is standing around/idling their car in the alley. Be persistent, too. I've had the chance to speak directly with Officer Testerman about "J" and his mother...he insists that we all have do our part & keep reporting all suspicious activity in order for them to make their bust. (Keep in mind that the city/SPD can also deem their property a "problem rental" & cite the owner for allowing ongoing illegal activity on her property, so the more we call, the better chance he's outta there.) Feel free to email Officer Testerman directly if it's easiest: travis.testerman@seattle.gov
Let's put this creepy guy out of business. I've got no tolerance for some unemployed guy who lives in his mother's basement & brazenly deals drugs within a school zone.
Posted 1 month ago # -
ChrisB
MemberLet me remind everyone that this is the United States of America, and we have this thing called a constitution. I understand that PROVEN drug activity in your neighborhood sucks and is unacceptable. However, we can not just stop and search anyone "hanging out" or "idling in their car" or "driving through" our neighborhood.
The tactics suggested in this forum are beginning to be disturbing - bordering on what they used to do to Jews in the 40's - "papers, please" "what are you doing", "Where are you going", "why are you going there".
The best course of action for this behavior I believe is to just greet and be nice to everyone you meet. Drug dealers and Customers do not like social engagements and if we greet everyone we come across instead of assuming that there is a prior motive would go a lot further than calling the police at the first sign of people hanging out in our neighborhood. Believe me - If they are greeted every time they come there - they will not come there anymore.
Of course if there is a pattern, that is one thing. But I would caution the individuals posting here that (as for now) it is a free country and people (so far) cannot be arrested for SUSPECT activity.
Also - posting someone's address and license plate on here is not cool. If you do suspect someone - by all means - report them to the police - and leave it to the police, or send an e-mail to a friend. But if you post something specific and private like that on this public forum you had better be sure - and you open yourself up for a liable suit. Not to mention - what if you are wrong? Or what if you get the numbers wrong by mistake? or what if your cousin from Timbucktoo is waiting for you to get home after a long road trip and is staying at your house? Or what if this accused drug dealer moves and someone else is now living at that address?
All I am saying is that there are better ways to address this than assuming that there is something illicit going on at the first sign of someone in your neighborhood waiting on a corner or in their car. It's a slippery slope.
I hope everyone here can think better of their fellow man and also keep in mind that these people you might suspect might just be someone walking to the park, talking on their phone to their mothers or might just be "hanging out" and should not have to prove it.
Thanks for considering it.
Posted 1 month ago # -
North of 85th
MemberChris- agreed... And hang out in the alley for a few afternoons and report back. You'll notice a pattern.
Posted 1 month ago # -
jlwmid
MemberChris,
I mostly agree with you. And I used to use just your approach. Then one of your people just out for a walk followed me to the back of my house and tried to follow me in. The police came and got him but there wasn't even anything they could charge him with. As far as I know he's back out there.
I will admit I am more cautious now about being friendly unless I recognize the person. And people loitering with no obvious purpose do make me nervous especially when I am out late.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberHehehe
ChrisB, that is incredibly naive of you to assume that we are unaware/confused about the actual activity that occurs our own alley. And, I really do appreciate your "friendly" approach to suspected drug activity...but there is definitely another level to be pursued when the friendly method is no longer effective. This house has been a problem for many years, and, by my count they've pretty much used up their "friendly Hello's" from all of us. The police are very much aware of this house--they have spoken with the owner many times, & the recividism is absolutely maddening when it comes to this guy. His activities put the neighborhood, the kids walking to school, and the families that live here at risk. Again, we should all have zero tolerance for any illegal activity, if even "suspected" (which *I think* you seem to accept as part of living in the city?). Anyhoo, the information that gets reported here is intended to stop his ongoing drug activity, & not report who in the hell happens to be driving/walking through our alley at any particular time. (At the risk of upsetting anyone's Constitutional rights, we do actually know who lives on our block vs. who is there to visit this particular house.) Keep up the good work folks!BTW, the police dropped by their house again yesterday at around 9:00 pm. A big thank you to whoever called.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberOh, and one of his visitors seems to enjoy using the alley as his/her personal bathroom! Darn near drove through it yesterday evening. The smell of human feces pack quite the punch when wafting through the summer breeze, so please get a good description if you see the offender. (And consider this fair warning to please bleach your shoes if you like walking through the alley.) Cheers!
Posted 1 month ago # -
mommaoftwo
MemberOne time I was hanging out in my escalade ( I am pointing this out because A. I am a girl, B. I am dressed nicely pretty much all the time, C. I was in a nice neighborhood, I believe I was in Bellevue) and I was just waiting for my friend and had the cops called on me. They wanted to search my car, smell my breathe, asked me all sorts of questions and I felt violated. Especially when I was only waiting for my girlfriend( who was taking forever to get ready, and instead of waiting inside, I thought if I moved to the car it would hurry her up!) The cops said likely story. Boo. I understand where Chris B is coming from. BUT BUT BUT we have kids. We have valuables. We have lives and I am sorry if anyone on this forum has had the unfortunate experience of being on drugs, but I do not want the drama that comes with people on the stuff, stealing, urinating in my backyard, feces, needles, or the harm a dealer could cause if there are undesirables stealing from them or whatever the situation. There are drivebys in bad neighborhoods right? There is "jack moves" pulled on people that carry drugs and money and ALL IT TAKES is one stray bullet to hit threw a house and kill your child. ( bullets can go miles.) So I am sorry Chris in this case they do not have rights against nosy neighbors and we have the right to be nosy when it comes to a drug street or drug house BUT keep in mind once a house has been deemed a drug house it goes on public record and brings property value down and there are websites that report this. There is my two cents.
Posted 1 month ago # -
artman51
MemberWe have taken photos of similar activities and submitted them to the SPD. The police find this helpful.
Posted 1 month ago # -
mommaoftwo
MemberYes I think all we can do is our part and show them we wont stand for it, I didnt work hard to buy a nice house to live in drug ridden neighborhoods. Hey, does anyone know if that particular house is rented? Alot of the time, drug dealers will rent and they dont usually have good credit to own the house. You can have them thrown out on their you know what if you contact their landlord. No one said they are responsible enough to have mortgages but common enough is renting these houses out even under assumed and then making them drug homes. Cooking, selling, and wrecking neighborhoods until it gets popped. ( I read too much true crime!)
Posted 1 month ago # -
anotherneighbor
MemberHere's another mention of Dayton between 80th and 85th. We walk our dog along there a couple times a day, and I've noticed a lot of what appears to be loitering in that area.
I don't *think* it's our neighbors - but it could be --- if ya'll see us running around out there with our dog, it's just us :) we're doing nothing wrong out there..
Posted 1 month ago # -
ChrisB
MemberI am not "naive" I think I know the difference between someone waiting for drugs and someone not waiting for drugs. But I may be mistaken from time to time. I did not mean that someone waiting in an alley at 1:00am was not suspicious. If you read what I wrote I mentioned that not everyone in your neighborhood hanging out was obviously up to no-good. It is obviously different if they are waiting in a dark alley. My point was that we should not assume everyone is up to no-good.
Case in point - mommaoftwo's post - I am appalled about how she was treated by the police. I would go so far as to say her civil rights were violated and she should say something about it to the Bellevue Police.
This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about an cautioning against.
I think this is enough said on the subject - we all have our own opinions.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberAhh. You reinforce our point! I'm not sure why anybody would urge against reporting suspicious activity, because people tend to know the difference between the two. Mommaoftwo: that really sucks! I honestly feel for you. If it helps...where the police do get it wrong 25% of the time, they are also protecting us 75% of the time. They've got a very difficult job to do, and, as much as an inconvenience a stop/search can be, there probably was a pretty good reason why they had to do such a thing in that particular neighborhood. You had nothing to hide, so consider it bad luck, not a violation of any personal rights!
(ChrisB---not picking on your post, but, her civil rights were not actually violated! I would caution against throwing around that term too loosely!)
For everyone that lives at the ongoing "drug hotspots" (1st & 80th, 85th & Dayton), please walk your dogs & stroll through the neighborhood! These kind of activities are actually pretty effective at driving away illegal activity.
Posted 1 month ago # -
artman51
MemberWhile walking to the library around 2:30PM on Monday Aug 2, I saw some people hanging around the alley on 1st NW. One woman was obviously on something because she was having trouble holding her head up. A bobble-head blonde. This is right across from the school playground between 80th and 81st.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberGood morning 80th/81st St Alley neighbors! There was a very loud explosion & house fire at the suspected Greenwood Alley Dealer's house early this morning (6:30). I spoke briefly with the Police; it may have been an attempted arson in front of the dealer's entry door. The investigation is still ongoing--I'll try & provide any updates as I hear them. If you saw any activity in the alley around this time, please contact the North Precinct ASAP (206-684-0850).
Posted 1 month ago # -
artman51
MemberWow, something to talk about at the block party. Is this house in the middle of the block on 80th? Maybe this thread should be renamed the 80th/81st St Alley Crisis since Dayton isn't mentioned as often.
Posted 1 month ago # -
velo
Membertwo deals went down on 6th and 82nd/83rd last night. White van driver got in a white honda civic, walked back 1/2 a block and then drove the van away with two females passengers. Then 10min later a seperate deal went down with a male getting in the back of a black ford sedan, chrome trim, tinted windows and no front plate.
didnt get a chance to grab license plates, and deals went down to fast to call the cops.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberYep. The brown house in the middle of the block. I got a tip that somebody might have stacked materials against his door & set off some sort of crude bomb (i.e., the intent being to trap him in! Yikes.). The fire scorched the side of the house & caught the neighbor's fence on fire. So glad the fire dept was able to put it out!
If anybody sees "J" out and about, I'm sure the Police would like to talk to him.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberOh, & if anybody is as concerned as I am about this incident, I tracked down a number of a Seattle City Liason Attorney:
http://www.seattle.gov/police/precincts/north/about.htm
His name is Edward Mckenna (edward.mckenna@seattle.gov), & you can leave him a voice message at 206-684-7765. I'm not sure if this is his kind of thing, but, I figure any help to intervene with the property owner would keep us all a whole heckuva lot safer. If this fire was in fact intentional (but unaffective), I 'd hate to see what's coming down the pike...
Posted 1 month ago # -
MikePhoto
MemberDidn't see or hear anything this morning, but saw all the police cars and fire truck when I passed by on 80th at about 7:15 on my way to work. I just walked by on 80th on my way to the Post Office, and it looks like the damage was actually to his mother's house, and not his little unit behind - at least, that's where the scorch marks appear to be. He usually uses the alley-facing entry, anyway. Came back from the PO through the alley, and there's someone home there; the door was open and it sounded like the TV was on. I did not see any damage at all on the alley side.
Think it might have been a rival dealer or a dis-satisfied customer, or just a random arson? I'd hate to think that it was a neighbor turning 'vigilante'. I think I'd rather live with the dealer than around someone who would do something like this. At any rate, EVERYONE keep your eyes open, and don't hesitate to call the SPD if you see anything that looks suspicious. They would usually much rather respond to a non-event than to have to deal with the aftermath.
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberMy feelings, too. Don't think it was a vigilante neighbor, unless we have a homocidal maniac living in our block. (That fire would've definitely taken out the whole house, including the elderly owner, if the Fire Dept hadn't responded so quickly.) One minor correction: the renter living in the back unit is NOT the dealer in question. It's actually the son who lives in the basement. He's about 5'8", ghost-white complexion, late fifties, & skinny as a rail. Often walks around with his shirt off. Given the history of the activity around there, it's most likely a deal gone bad. Got word from a witness that the owner may finally ready to evict the son after this incident. Keep your fingers crossed & your eyes & ears open on this one, folks! She may need us to report him if he's seen wandering around the area.
Posted 1 month ago # -
MikePhoto
MemberI emailed Officer Testerman on Saturday, when the steady stream of people was going through the alley. I just got off the phone with him. Had a very nice conversation. Yes, the son is living in the basement apartment, on the east side. The guy renting the back unit (the '1/2' address, with the Harley) is actually the good guy in all this; Officer Testerman tells me that he actually helps to keep off some of the sketchy characters that wander up the alley. I was confused about the configuration of the house; I thought it was just 2 units, when it is actually 3. The guy living on the alley side is not the bad guy.
This fire may be the final tipping point... LOTS of officers were running around this morning. It turns out that the mom has some type of reverse-mortgage thing on the house, and the bank actually owns it. She has little control at this point. The son is actually renting from the bank, and not his mom. She is working with the police and the bank and they may be able to come up with a solution soon to stop the son's activities.
At any rate, the police will be contacting him again, and the narcotics section is fully involved. Officer Testerman was optimistic about us seeing a resolution to the situation sooner rather than later. Scary as it was to have something like this happen, this may be the final thing that was needed to get some real action going. Here's hoping that we see an end to this soon!
Posted 1 month ago # -
RighteousCornFarmer
MemberThanks Mike! That is good news. Officer Testerman is absolutely right about the renter in the back unit/alley side. That guy is freakin' awesome. He definitely confronts the people causing trouble back there.
Posted 1 month ago #
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