25 responses so far ↓

• 1 Caroline // Mar 10, 2010 at 4:21 pm

  I am so glad they haven’t given up trying to help those poor elephants. I wish I could attend this demonstration but we will be leaving town tomorrow morning. Good luck to the animal advocates! For the elephants………

• 2 Megan the Vegan // Mar 10, 2010 at 4:32 pm

  I’ll be protesting for the introduction of vegan, cruelty-free food for all the animals at the zoo!

  Meat is murder!

  Now!

• 3 Neighbor // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:14 pm

  Gee, is it responsible, unbiased journalism to mention the zoo’s fundraiser only when there’s a protest attached to it? That’s a bit of an affront to the scores of talented, responsible, dedicated zoo workers with whom we share our neighborhood. I would urge Phinneywood’s “powers that be” to show a little more restraint before posting every press release that enters their inbox. Thank you.

• 4 Jack A // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:22 pm

  Phinneywood posts a lot of pieces for the zoo, Neighbor. The closing of the Nocturnal House, the ZooDoo for sale are just two of the recent posts that were purely for the zoo. Phinneywood has posted this because it is an activity that is planned relating to the subject of this blog. Let’s face it, “Neighbor”, you just want fluff pieces for the zoo posted and nothing for the animals. I think that’s just a little lopsided as a viewpoint.

• 5 Whopper // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:36 pm

  Zoo doo? Is that what comes out of the animal rights loons’ mouths every time they protest?

• 6 Perry // Mar 10, 2010 at 6:09 pm

  Whopper, you think that animal rights advocates are “loons”? Why would anyone think that caring about the welfare of the animals (elephants) is “lunacy”?

• 7 Whopper // Mar 10, 2010 at 6:41 pm

  Loons, nuts, crazies, extremists, radicals, fanaticals, militants, harebrained, cockamamie, half-baked, PETA goons…..

  Basically folks who are thoroughly entertaining and easily forgotten. Think circus clowns.

• 8 Whopper // Mar 10, 2010 at 6:45 pm

  Looneys, crazies, extremists, radicals, PETA goons…..

  Mind you, it’s important that they protest so I know which of my neighbors might try to sneak into my house and liberate my foie gras.

• 9 Megan the Vegan // Mar 10, 2010 at 6:47 pm

  Woodland Park Zoo = Guantanamo on Phinney!

  Free Happy Feet!

  Now!

• 10 Doree // Mar 10, 2010 at 6:55 pm

  Neighbor - PhinneyWood never received any press releases on the zoo’s fundraiser, so we didn’t even know about it until we received the press release on the protest. By the way, we’ve received many more press releases from zoo protesters that we haven’t published. We don’t post everything that comes into our inbox - far from it.

• 11 Whopper // Mar 10, 2010 at 7:37 pm

  ” we’ve received many more press releases from zoo protesters”

  It’s likely they have the time for their hobby, rather than working for a living.

• 12 Tahomajim // Mar 10, 2010 at 8:56 pm

  Phinneywood gladly… obligitory…. posts anti zoo press releases because people/neighbors are so passionate about the zoo… one side or the other…. it generates exposure to their advertising… one side or the other. I expect this posting to0 generate 75 comment threads of which I’m number 11.

  This is not a bad thing…. it’s giving everybody a say….. even though one side has it’s head up it’s own ass.

  So, let’s have at it anti elephant people, and please respect our intelligence by supplying proven facts. Not just your selfish TWISTED opinion,

  Prostesting this issue will not work. You’re wasting your time. You MUST work with the zoo to accomplish your objective and that is an improved habitat for our elephants. It’s OK with me to put your money where your mouth is.
  Just do it.

  Doree, You know why you receive more press releases from zoo protesters than the zoo, yes? If you don’t, you know how to contact me privately and I’ll explain it to you.

• 13 Perry // Mar 10, 2010 at 9:14 pm

  I don’t believe Phinneywood has received more press releases from the animal folks because you have printed more long pieces for the zoo. Otherwise, why didn’t you put why the animal advocates are trying to get the elephants to the sanctuary?

  It’s terribly sad that the elephants are dying by inches each day while unconscious zoogoers parade past their exhibit and don’t even notice the suffering they’re looking at.

• 14 Coffee:Black // Mar 10, 2010 at 9:41 pm

  I could say something about this argument but I’m tired right now, tired of this constant bickering and single-minded, blind proselytizing on behalf all those involved. To tell you the truth, it’s the inability to think about any side but your own and the absolute refusal to learn anything new that really gets on my nerves about this whole thing.

  I could give a flying monkey flop about which side is right or wrong, but pure thoughtless obedience to any side of an argument when all the facts aren’t taken into account is just pure stupidity. If you want to keep zoo’s from housing elephants in the future, you cannot go off and say that it is evil when you don’t fully know, or care to learn, the history of zoo’s (especially this zoo) and the realities of keeping elephants in captivity in a contemporary context.

  This goes for both sides in the argument, grab a book or look on the internet and learn something about the other side of the coin before you jump in and start spouting words like “evil” or “crazy.” Your words are fueled mainly by emotion and opinion rather than fact and that is why you constantly but heads on the subject. Blind faith in ideology without questioning what others is saying is how holy wars get started. And as in most holy wars, both sides are both trying to accomplish very similar goals.

  In truth the zoo probably raises more money and awareness for wild life preserves, protected lands, endangered species than any local Animal Rights group has ever done in this area. Scientific study and breeding programs in zoos help keep species that are extinct in the wild from dying off completely.

  At the same time, the protesters are probably right that keeping elephants in zoo’s is less necessary than other animals and is a practice that will most likely become obsolete at some point. However, keeping future wild generations of elephants out of captivity won’t change the fact that you still have to do something with the sizable population that was born in captivity and would never survive in the wild. That is why sanctuaries are important, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that they are anything but a very large zoo with less visitors. And with wild populations being herded into game preserves and wild life parks in order to keep them safe from the ever growing human population in that region of the world you are only limiting their space and the amount of food they will have to eat. With no natural predators, save man, it is very likely that elephants will eventually have to be killed on preserves in order to keep them from killing themselves by over breeding and wiping out their food supply.

  The sad thing is that because man exists and continues to spread across the world, pushing in on the habitats of wild animals and consuming natural resources with no end in sight, you may very soon only be able to see an elephant in a zoo or sanctuary.

  With this in mind, what do the anti-zoo people intend to actually do about the dangers wild elephants face in the future? Do you intend to go to Asia and Africa and infringe on the native sovereignty of it’s peoples to tell them they must stop growing as a civilization or do you intend to just stay here and find a new animal to complain about?

• 15 Nancy Farnam // Mar 11, 2010 at 5:52 am

  In response to the poster who said he wanted more information on the reason for the demonstration, here is the rest of the press release that we distributed. I would also just like to say that we are not an anti-zoo organization as someone else has said. We simply believe that elephants don’t belong in a zoo and are suffering in that venue. Many in the zoo industry agree with that viewpoint. Thank you.

  The advocates are worried that the zoo’s surviving elephants will start dying soon if they cannot get to a more elephant-friendly life. “Their health is rapidly failing from captivity-related diseases”, says Nancy Farnam, SARA’s director. “Bamboo, Watoto, and Chai suffer from crippling arthritis and chronic foot infections, the leading causes of premature death in zoo elephants”, adds Farnam. Six-year old Asian elephant, Hansa, already died at the zoo from an elephant virus in 2007.

  Members of SARA say the elephants are locked in small rooms in the barn for up to 17 hours a day, 7 days a week, 7 months a year, where they must stand on hard floors in their own urine and feces. This severe confinement causes their joints to deteriorate as well as foot infections which become chronic and life-threatening. “At the sanctuary, the elephants would be able to walk miles per day in a large natural habitat which would help them regain their health”, says Farnam. “At the zoo, they get no exercise and are driven crazy by the monotony and lack of space”, she adds. “They all display aggression and neurotic distressed behavior such as pacing and rocking back and forth.”

  A study published last year in the journal, Science, found that elephants live a lot longer in the wild than they do in captivity. When they are placed in zoos, their normal lifespan of 60-70 years or more plummets and they stop breeding. Several zoos, including those in Detroit, Philadelphia and San Francisco, have retired their elephants to sanctuaries, recognizing they cannot provide the giants with enough space or a high quality of life. “If those zoos can make the compassionate choice to free their elephants, Woodland Park Zoo should be able to do the same,” says Farnam.

  The Elephant Sanctuary (www.elephants.com) has offered to pay for the transport and care of the Woodland Park Zoo elephants for the rest of their lives, at no expense to the zoo or city. The sanctuary provides over 2700 acres of meadows, hills, ponds, woods, trails, creeks and a 25 acre private lake and state-of-the-art barns
  and expert care.

• 16 Whopper // Mar 11, 2010 at 7:45 am

  “hat do the anti-zoo people intend to actually do about the dangers wild elephants face in the future”

  Listen, you can be reasonable with reasonable people, but fact is, these folks hate ALL zoos.

  After they get the elephants, it’ll be the penguins, then the flamingos, then…. They want to shut zoos and have stated so here on this blog.

  So sorry, there is no point is listening to them.

• 17 Jack A // Mar 11, 2010 at 7:54 am

  Whoa, Whopper, your nasty posts don’t make the zoo folks look too good. Nancy was very reasonable and polite in outlining her group’s position and your response was just ugly and totally reactionary. You don’t make a very good spokesman for the zoo side.

• 18 Jon // Mar 11, 2010 at 9:03 am

  The elephants in captivity are also suffering from hepatitis. They simply do not have enough room.

  WPZ has, historically speaking, been fairly humane. However, this is one case where they could definitely improve. The elephants are clearly suffering from the conditions of captivity.

• 19 Julie // Mar 11, 2010 at 9:51 am

  The issue is complex. It helps if people quote actual facts. The 60-70 age is given as the longest life expectancy, not the norm. The research always draws very different conclusions between Asian and African elephants. The research is slanted in that it only studies wild populations in protected reserves so the numbers don’t include animals killed by humans. Similarly the zoo numbers go back to times when elephants were treated very differently in zoos than they are today.

  The issue of how best to manage captive elephant populations is a good one. One argument against the sanctuary for these specific animals is that Chai and Watoto would be separated. I can’t imagine anyone who cares about these specific animals wanting that to happen.

• 20 Caroline // Mar 11, 2010 at 10:48 am

  The main cause of premature death in zoo elephants are arthritis and chronic foot disease (ie. infections). These conditions are not due to the way the “elephants were treated” in the past in zoos. They are the result of lack of space and standing on hard surfaces for years. The statistics clearly show that zoos are inherently inadequate for elephants. They have terrible breeding problems too that they don’t have in the wild.

  The reason they only include elephants in protected areas in comparison studies is because humans killing them is not a normal occurrence and therefore they could not get an accurate comparison of the effect of living in the wild vs. captivity. The results would be skewed by the abnormal intervening factor of humans killing them. They wanted to get the effect of normal living conditions in the wild.

• 21 Coffee:Black // Mar 11, 2010 at 6:45 pm

  At least people are trying to include facts in the conversation now but the fact remains that I don’t think you are going to see the WPZ elephants moved from the zoo anytime soon. One reason being that they most likely would want to move them to a facility that was AZA certified (Association of Zoos and Aquariums) so they would be sure they would get the best care. The AZA is the association that most zoos and aquariums in the US are accredited by and all facilities that are under their purview must meet certain predetermined guidelines. The AZA has not approved of the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee because it does not meet their standards and as a result the two associations have been butting heads for some time now.

  The other reasons why you won’t see the elephants moved any time soon involve benefits in terms of raising awareness and raising money. The WPZ is a non-profit group and they do have to raise a lot of money to keep them selves running and also pay for research and support other conservation groups and programs around the world. The plain fact is that most people could care less about animals most of the time, they have other immediate issues on their mind and won’t give money to support anything unless they have it waved around in their face like a ball of yarn being hung in front of an attention starved cat. Telling people about the plight of an animal in captivity or in the wild only gets you so far, we are a visually based society and many of us will not show any interest in anything someone tells us until they put an example of what they are talking about right in front of our face to drive the point home.

  Having elephants at the zoo allows WPZ to raise money for its animals and for the programs it supports to make life in the wild better for animals elsewhere. It also helps the zoo educate people as to what is going on with the elephants outside of the zoo.

  However, WPZ is a very old zoo and the Elephant habitat is about 20 years out of date. It would be nice if they could expand and make the facilities for these animals bigger, but that again takes money. Not to mention that the State decided to put RT 99 through the middle of Woodland Park in the 1930’s, limiting the space they have to expand even further.

• 22 Robert // Mar 12, 2010 at 11:03 am

  Just curious to hear from those at the “protest” to see how it went. I am just curious if their perception of what they did matches the reality of what we saw last night. They have been curiously silent about this.

• 23 outside the box // Mar 12, 2010 at 5:05 pm

  It’s now late Friday afternoon….how was the protest? How many people turned out? Was it informative and orderly? I assume so, as I have heard nothing of it on the local media.

• 24 Tahomajim // Mar 12, 2010 at 8:36 pm

  It was a non issue and the subject has been trumped by the insemination news.

  Friends of WPZ elephants are long on talk… blogs… but are unwilling to participate beyond writing on blogs. Talk is cheap. It takes more than talk.

• 25 Robert // Mar 14, 2010 at 11:07 am

  The “protest” consisted of 2 people holding signs and they left once it started raining hard. It was really very laughable - and very hard to take the FOWPZE folks seriously when they hardly turn out for a major zoo event.

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