Update 9:40 a.m.: Seattle Fire confirms that both fires this morning were intentionally set.
“Fire investigators have determined that two fires that occurred early this morning were intentionally set by an unknown suspect,” SFD Spokeswoman Dana Vander Houwen says. “Fire investigators believe that both fires were set by the same person.”
Vander Houwen says neighbors used fire extinguishers to help contain the fire on the back porch at CPA Seattle before fire fighters arrived. The fire did not extend into the business. Damage is estimated at $5,000.
The fire half an hour later at Rosewood Guitar also did not extend inside the building. Damage is estimated at $20,000.
This brings the total number of neighborhood arsons in the last few months to seven, plus another arson just north of Greenwood in Bitter Lake late Monday night.
Firefighters were called at 3:30 a.m. to a small fire at the CPA Seattle office at 338 NW 85th St. The fire began on the back deck, scorching the back of the building. Neighbors extinguished the blaze, and firefighters promptly called for an investigator. While crews were waiting for the investigator to arrive — and checking our identification for their records — a second call came in for a fire at a business on Greenwood Ave. at 84th St., just three blocks away.
We arrived just as firefighters pulled up, and flames were shooting from the roof of the Rosewood Guitar shop, right next door to the Cobblestone Used Furniture store. The fire department called in extra units to fight the blaze, and the fire was knocked down several minutes later. The media quickly descended on the scene. KOMO 4, KING 5, and KIRO 7 all have stories and video online. As of 5:30 a.m., Greenwood Ave. remains shut down at 84th St.
“It absolutely instills fear when you see building, after building, after building,” said Dave, a nearby resident who woke up with the sirens this morning. “It’s like a localized form of terrorism. He’s scaring people. We never know when he’s going to strike next, where he’s going to strike next.”
There are now seven unsolved arsons in the Greenwood area over the last few months (see map). Two weeks ago, a fire destroyed four Greenwood businesses. “We’re talking about a not-for-profit coffee shop, a locally-owned guitar shop. We’re not talking about big business,” said another resident who didn’t want us to use his name. “They’re not hitting the man, they’re hitting small town people with small town values. This is disturbing to me.”
If you have seen anything suspicious, you’re asked to call 1-800-55-ARSON. As always, we’ll keep you updated on this story…
Also: Plans underway to bring community together to fight arsons
81 responses so far ↓
1 Takenroad // Nov 5, 2009 at 5:43 am
I think you mean Rosewood Guitar.
http://www.rosewoodguitar.com/
2 Geeky Swedes // Nov 5, 2009 at 5:45 am
Thank you. We changed it.
3 josh maher // Nov 5, 2009 at 6:04 am
This is getting a bit out of hand… There has to be something we can be doing to work towards stopping all the fires.
4 Don D. // Nov 5, 2009 at 6:07 am
I woke up to the sirens and was hoping it wasn’t yet another fire, but am grimly not surprised. I’m going to be afraid to leave the house at this rate, especially over the holidays.
5 Susan // Nov 5, 2009 at 6:17 am
Arson, kidnapping, arson, armed bus stop robberies, arson…I feel like I’m living in a war zone. This insanity has to stop.
Citizen patrols?
6 82nd // Nov 5, 2009 at 7:00 am
1. The dirtbag is most likely reading this blog. Arsonists love to see the reaction to what they’ve done, and since this blog provides far better/faster coverage than the local newspapers, I bet he’s reading it. So comments about how “this is scaring me” is exactly what he wants and makes the little weenie feel powerful.
2. Regarding leaving home for the holidays (or anytime), one of the sure signs that nobody is home is those advertising flyers that area businesses hang on your doorknob or tape to your front door. It is extremely easy to drive along a street and spot the vacant houses. I suggest that every time you get one of those flyers, you call the business to explain why you do NOT want them.
3. It might be interesting to compile a list of the time of day that these fires have been started and maybe raise awareness among people who work late shifts so they can be watching for unusual activity.
7 Honey Bucket // Nov 5, 2009 at 7:34 am
Well, the vandals have been running loose in the neighborhood for years. There are not enough police on patrol at night.
8 Dog Walker 81 // Nov 5, 2009 at 7:44 am
I suggest we arrange a community meeting. There are more than enough concerned and active citizens in this neighborhood, we can work together to let this terrorist know he/she picked the wrong neighborhood to mess with. Whoever is doing this is attacking the very heartbeat that makes our neighborhood ours…our local small businesses.
9 Takenroad // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:09 am
The time stamps on your comments are off by an hour. My earlier comment was posted at 4:43am.
10 Princess Platypus // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:10 am
Re: something we can do.
Maybe if there is anyone in PhinneyWood who would be willing to help the businesses in the 85th/Greenwood area install/upgrade security camera systems (you know, like the sets you can get at Costco), they could contact the moderators of this blog. And then the mods could put them in touch with businesses.
It won’t put a stop to it, but maybe it would be a deterrant and/or create some evidence where we currently have none.
11 Honey Bucket // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:17 am
They need undercover police, bike patrols and dogs to catch the vandals.
12 Honey Bucket // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:19 am
“They’re not hitting the man, they’re hitting small town people with small town values. This is disturbing to me.”
What a stupid comment/quote.
13 Tiktok // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:45 am
“They’re not hitting the man, they’re hitting small town people with small town values. This is disturbing to me.”
In times of crisis, people’s mouths often run ahead of their brains, but this is an impressively stupid statement, particularly when police cars were burned a few weeks ago. Arson is criminal lunacy, period.
14 Northa85th // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:54 am
This has to stop. I realize the city is in shock over the police murder and resources are being devoted to that investigation, but if this arsonist isn’t stopped soon, someone’s gonna get killed. When I hear things like there are only six patrols north of the ship canal cruising the streets during the night, I’m not so assured this guy’s gonna get caught. I understand the sentiment behind the calls for citizen patrols and security cameras–all that may help. But honestly, this is why we have police, why we pay taxes for public safety. The City is obligated to protect us. Are they in this case? What’s being done to assure the community one of our properties isn’t going to charred next?
The PGCC sent the letter asking for a strong police response. What’s come of that?
I dunno, it’s more and more clear to me that our streets are under policed. I’m afraid this sorta tragedy is what happens as a result. This has to change and I hope our politicians understand that.
15 Abonney // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:06 am
I agree with citizen patrols. The Greenwood Chamber of Commerce, in conjunction with the Seattle Police and Fire Departments, should organize something as quickly as possible to catch this little fire bug. Otherwise things will really get out of hand — like accidentally shooting the arsonist.
16 Blacksky // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:14 am
I think citizen patrols is the answer. It’s not that large of an area if groups of citizens took up different sections/different times of day…have cell phones programmed w/ police/fire numbers, cameras, buddy system etc…
17 Susan Mullen // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:14 am
Awhile back I commented that I would be a mess at work the next day if I went on a citizens’ patrol at 2, 3, or 4 AM. Guess what. I’m already a mess! My nerves are shattered. So why not go on patrol? If anyone gets one organized, I’m in for at least one morning a week, and I don’t care which.
18 Jan // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:16 am
I agree with 82nd. The arsonist is a weenie, and probably mentally ill.
I’m not afraid, I’m angry. The arsonist WILL get caught. He / She is too stupid and addicted to not get caught.
As a community we need to keep our eyes open. Can’t sleep at night? Take a drive and look around. Walk the dog and look around. This idiot will make a mistake at some point, if he/she hasn’t already.
19 JMaytum // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:21 am
One suggestion - if a patrol is oganized please do not post any of the information online.
20 Rob Fellows // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:26 am
Any word on the guitar shop? Is everything destroyed?
There needs to be an opportunity to meet with the fire and police departments and discuss what we can do to help them solve this. (In lieu of that, an interview with police and fire posted here would be greatly appreciated — once again thank you to the bloggers for keeping us in touch).
It is easy to get angry, but a lot harder to stay focused and get some results
21 Ghoul // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:29 am
please make sure your smoke alarms are working in your house.!
install a couple more if you have to.
22 Visitor // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:30 am
At what point does this become domestic terrorism? Where is the line drawn between pyro-psycho and calling in the Feds? Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this. I think meanwhile citizen action is a good idea as long as the person is not approached but 911 is called instead.
23 Ghoul // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:31 am
btw, burning a guitar should be met with capital punishment.
unless you are jimi hendrix…
24 jm // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:45 am
I went to look at 7:30 AM. It looks like the fire was between the two buildings used by the guitar shop. The quick response by the SFD obviously saved the businesses. From the street, the guitar school looked ok, but there must be smoke damage. The local media sure turned out in force.
25 Ghoul // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:57 am
here is a site with all the different arsonist traits,
http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/cjrp/arson.html
not like it will help, but interesting none-the-less.
26 amm // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:59 am
why are we not hearing anything from SPD about investigation?
27 Stefanie // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:04 am
OK - where’s the Greenwood Community Council and the Chamber of Commerce? Nick Licata, are you reading this? You live in the neighborhood. McGinn? Whose going to schedule a town meeting tonight. People need to talk. We need a briefing from the fire and police departments. This, along with the drug dealing and break-ins in our neighborhood - I’ve had enough.
28 Shannon // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:07 am
Just a quick thought…
How about the Greenwood Community Council, the Greenwood Chamber of Commerce, police, fire and someone from the Seattle Community Council host a community meeting where people can get together and discuss this. We could have it at Greewood elementary, the senior center…
This would be a great opportunity to discuss fundrasing for these small busineess, and to find out what actions we can take to stop this madness.
If you have the contacts, I’ll start dialing…
29 Brooklynn206 // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:14 am
A rant: The last thing I want in my community is more police! I like the more creative (and likely more effective) ideas of citizen bike patrol, installing action triggered lighting, etc. The amount of money we spend on police in this city is already outrageous. If the police haven’t caught this person yet, why do we think more patrols is the answer? I will join the citizen force. Let’s get organized. P.S. I hope the arsonist doesn’t join! And if s/he is listening: thank you for not burning homes and businesses with people in them.
Maybe we should set up a pile of junk and old wood for s/he to burn in an abandoned lot?
30 Todd // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:16 am
My wife called the fire dept this morning and they took down her name and added it to a list of numerous other concerned neighbors. They are going to forward this list to the police dept with the hope that they will contact everyone and try to setup some sort of neighborhood watch, etc.. Might be worth doing to get more names on the list.
31 jm // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:17 am
“And if s/he is listening: thank you for not burning homes and businesses with people in them.”
They have already set a fire with people in the home on 84th St.
32 Ann O'Loughlin // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:18 am
I must be missing something because I can’t understand why the “small town, small town values” comment deserved being called “impressively stupid”. Wasn’t he/she essentially just observing that the arsonist’s targets have been small, family owned businesses?
33 Shannon // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:20 am
I left a voicemail for Nick Licata’s (he lives in Greenwood) to see if he has any plans to host a community meeting. Waiting to hear back.
34 Stefanie // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:27 am
Time for a meeting. Start calling/commenting to folks below:
Greenwood Community Council: info@greenwoodcommunitycouncil.org
Nick Licata (Seattle City Council): nick.licata@seattle.gov
Greenwood Chamber of Commerce: info@greenwood-phinney.com or (206) 789-1148
35 Lexicon Girl // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:37 am
Most serial arsonists are in it for both the the thrill of the destruction, as well as the notoriety they gain from their actions. I guarantee you that the arsonist is reading this blog as well as any other reports on his/her actions that come up in the media.
With that in mind, I’d like to recall the story of Martin Pang, who set fire to his family’s business in order to collect the insurance. Unfortunately, 2 firefighters died in the blaze, which was not Pang’s intent. He got charged with murder anyway. You can find him in solitary confinement.
You’re going to get caught. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but you will. And years from now, as you’re sitting in your cell looking at that long stretch of jailhouse wall, you’ll remember what you gave up. Your freedom, your choice, your dignity. You’ll have no one to hate but yourself.
If you remember anything, you’ll remember that.
36 Iron City Mike // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:38 am
The sad reality is, few arsonists are ever caught. Having the community organized is our best hope. I for one would gladly volunteer to stay up all night once a week to help patrol, before nothing is left of our neighborhood but a pile of cinders.
37 tsombrero // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:38 am
I doubt many people are into a 3am walkabout but I will be installing a cam facing the street. You can set it up so it just saves the last 24 hours. I am surprised more businesses do not do the same. One in front, one in back. Some of them work in the dark. I would like to see them hanging off the bottom of traffic lights as well. They are cheap, and as long as they are only used to investigate crime I have no problem with that at all.
38 Blacksky // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:45 am
Another group http://www.gainseattle.com/index.html
39 Trix // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:49 am
Agree, Ann. It seemed a little uncalled for to me too. But people here are angry, and rightly so. Not unusual to get a little snippiness right now.
40 john // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:52 am
Get the block watch together to compare notes. The arsonist probably lives in the area, & has a criminal history of starting fires. May even be a juvenile fire starter. Sad to know that it may be necessary to start watching properties at night. This is as dangerous as the arsonist who caused wide spread destruction & some deaths in north Seattle in the ’90’s. He’s now serving a life sentence in prison.
41 Susan Helf // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:56 am
I agree with Shannon that we should contact our North End Council representatives. I’d go a step further and suggest we call every continuing member of theCity Council, as well as both mayoral candidates (since the votes for mayor are in a recount.)
It’s time to have another big community forum like the one we had in October of 2005. That forum was organized by GAIN (Greenwood Aurora Involved Neighbors)
gaingroup@gmail.com
Four-hundred mad-as-hell residents came to complain about crimes they had suffered or witnessed. They talked about burglaries and finding used syringes and condoms in their yards. Residents described drug deals and seeing prostitutes turning tricks, some of them on the porches of private houses!
The community forum was attended by Nick Licata and former Councilman Peter Steinbrueck, as well as representatives from the mayor’s office and the police department.
As a result of the forum, we got a few more police patrols on the streets west of Aurora. Drug dealing and prostitution in those areas went down somewhat.
What we are experiencing now IS domestic terrorism. It’s far more dangerous than the crime we complained of in 2005. It’s time to organize another big community meeting like that of October, 2005.
At the same time, residents should start citizen patrols. It’s extremely unlikely that we are going to get increased police patrols in our war-zone of a neighborhood anytime soon.
As one writer said, we shouldn’t organize citizen patrols on this public list. Any suggestions about how to organize privately?
42 Julie // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:00 am
I think the implication that “hitting the man”, whatever the heck that means, would be OK is what Tiktok found impressively stupid. I agree. Setting a fire in never a valid approach to a grievance. Plus the typical arsonist isn’t a political activist.
Since one fire was set in a residence, and a tenant seriously injured, and another in buildings directly adjacent to apartments, I think the thank you for only setting fires to businesses was also impressively stupid.
43 Princess Platypus // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:01 am
Northa85th: No, the city is not obligated to protect you. Courts have ruled repeatedly that police are not under an obligation to prevent crime.
amm: Maybe we’re not hearing more about investigations because publicizing it would defeat the purpose. We don’t know if the SPD has plainclothes cops hanging around the neighborhood at night. Just because they haven’t laid out their plan to the public doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
44 SPG // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:18 am
Brooklyn ranted:”The last thing I want in my community is more police!”
Why? Because having some police patrol at night might cut down on the number of cars getting broken into? Some taggers might get caught in the act? Drunk drivers might get stopped on the way home from the bar? What reason in the world can you give to have less police than the almost none we have now?
Brooklyn ranted:”The amount of money we spend on police in this city is already outrageous.”
Hardly. Seattle has 1/5th the number of police than most other cities when you count police per 1,000 residents. Seattle is actually grossly underpoliced.
Brooklyn ranted:”If the police haven’t caught this person yet, why do we think more patrols is the answer?”
Simple. Because there currently aren’t any patrols. The few police who are on duty at night are usually on their way from one call to the next and not actually patrolling.
Brooklyn ranted: “And if s/he is listening: thank you for not burning homes and businesses with people in them.”
Too late. A man was already severely burned a couple months ago when the arsonist set the fire by the doorway to his basement apartment.
Have you noticed that these other fires are set by doorways to try to trap and burn any people inside?
Brooklyn ranted:”Maybe we should set up a pile of junk and old wood for s/he to burn in an abandoned lot?”
And this shows your complete lack of understanding of the problem.
45 Brian // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:33 am
I believe this has become the responsibility of the neighborhood to patrol our streets until the arson stops. 100 sets of eyes are far better than one patrol car. The few posts I have read mention watch patrols and I could not agree more. As stated previously, the Greenwood Council (with help from Seattle Police) should immediately set up a neighborhood meeting to help organize watch groups.
This not the time to panic or be scared, we just need to organize quickly to stop what is going on.
46 Susan Helf // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:36 am
Lexicon Girl - thanks for bringing up the horrendous 1995 arson at the Mary Pang building. I’d like to make a correction -
FOUR men died in that blaze - Lt. Walter Kilgore, Lt. Gregory Shoemaker and firefighters Randall Terlicker and James Brown.
Knowing Martin Pang is in solitary confinement gives me hope that the Greenwood arsonist will meet the same fate.
47 Whopper // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:36 am
“The last thing I want in my community is more police!”
Great idea, I have no problem with it Brooklyn, but can we get those Greenwood patrols here in Phinney instead and you hippies and cop haters in Greenwood can fend for yourselves?
48 SunsetSu // Nov 5, 2009 at 11:43 am
Amen to Whopper’s comment!
49 82nd // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:06 pm
The Greenwood arsonist of the 1990’s was Paul Keller. He’s in jail now. Here’s an old Seattle PI article that gives some good info on characteristics of arsonists:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001995380_profile03m.html
The author says: “That the fires all occurred during late night and early morning in one geographic area may make it easier to profile the arsonist, he said. Most arsonists set fires within a certain range of where they live and frequently travel between blazes on foot or bicycle…”
I’d be willing to bet this guy lives within a very small radius of 85th and Greenwood.
50 Stefanie // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:10 pm
@46 and @47 - Greenwood neighbor and NOT a cop hater here. Let’s keep it civil, people.
And, @28 Brooklyn - the neighborhood has been organizing around the increased drug deals and break-ins happening. It’s good for the neighbors to fight and work together against this crime. It’s also ESSENTIAL that we have the police working with us as well.
51 Trix // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Second that, Stefanie. Really, Whopper? Voicing your hatred of Greenwood on THIS story?
52 Anne // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Doesn’t the antique shop at the corner of 85th and Greenwood already have a camera?
53 Whopper // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:25 pm
“Voicing your hatred of Greenwood on THIS story?”
Where? Just voicing my concern about the idiocy of certain Greenwood residents who don’t like cops.
54 R // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Here is an attempt to summarize the region’s 2009 fires…
Suspected arsons (possibly by the same person)…
—- ) June 19, 2009 - 8733 _ Greenwood Ave. N. - Former site of the OK Corral BBQ - Arson.
—- ) August 12, 2009 - 7708 _ Greenwood Ave. N - Residence - Arson.
—- ) August 13, 2009 - 1111 N. 98th Street - Offices - Arson.
—- ) August 13, 2009 - 108 NW 84th Street - Residence - Arson.
—- ) October 23, 2009 - 210 N 85th Street - Green Bean (Spreading to PhoTicTac-SzechuanBistro-CCTeriyaki) - Arson.
—- ) November 2, 2009 - 13437 _ Greenwood Ave. N - Residence - Arson.
—- ) November 5, 2009 - 338 NW 85th Street - Office - Arson.
—- ) November 5, 2009 - 8402 _ Greenwood Ave. N - Rosewood Guitar - Arson.
Also…
—- ) August 12, 2009 - 358 NW 85th Street - Residence - Accident.
—- ) September 28, 2009 - 8539 _ Greenwood Ave. N - Gary’sGames - Accident.
—- ) November 2, 2009 - 700 N 103rd Street — Residence - Accident.
This list may be incomplete and/or out of date.
This references list is certainly incomplete:
REF:
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/08/13/house-fire-at-1st-and-nw-84th-st/)
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/08/14/investigators-four-greenwood-fires-are-arson/)
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/08/19/arson-update/)
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/10/29/greenwood-fire-was-arson/)
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/11/03/suspicious-fire-north-of-greenwood/)
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/11/05/two-fires-this-morning-in-greenwood/)
(http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/176544.asp)
————————–
55 Dennis // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:26 pm
When someone hurts regular folks and not “The Man”, it means they don’t care about themselves let alone the people around them. Typically these Darwin award winners just OD alone but once in awhile they inflict harm on others. Maybe the guy has an aversion to needles? Hey buddy! if you are reading this, burn the crack pipe and not small businesses. Keep your F’ed up issues to yourself.
56 step it up // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:26 pm
In London, there are video cameras on nearly every block to capture crime - this may a smart next step for Seattle neighborhoods.
57 gladerunner // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Wow. Whopper, I’d say that’s a little uncalled for. I know 80th street represents “the other side of the tracks” for you Phinney folk, but c’mon.
58 Kelly // Nov 5, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Wow. “Whopper” and “Sunset Su”… one individual’s comment does not represent a whole community. I think your response was innapropriate. I live in Greenwood and am neither a hippie nor a cop hater. I would welcome a greater police presence in BOTH of these very close communities.
59 amm // Nov 5, 2009 at 1:05 pm
@princess platypus: i hope you are right. there still has to be a way to address the issue in public though. right now i feel like the silence is going to cause damage (anxiety, worry, arguing) when a public forum with civic leaders might create a unified front, and ease the considerable amount of worry in the ‘hood.
60 allisonw // Nov 5, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I wrote to Licata’s office and asked them to spearhead the effort to get a community meeting together. Took less than five minutes, I encourage you all to do so as well. We’ve got to get a handle on this.
61 SunsetSu // Nov 5, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I also live in Greewood, only a few blocks from the most recent arson. I didn’t mean to imply that I think everybody in my neighborhood is an idiot.
I disagree with those in our area who oppose more police protection. That would have been a more civil way to respond.
62 Jujubee // Nov 5, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Are the cops keeping an eye on this guy? He was supposedly released a couple years back in Seattle. 5 years or so ago he was setting ablaze to places around Greenwood. Coincidence?….
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20041126&slug=arsonupdate26m
http://www.komonews.com/internal?st=print&id=4132706&path=/news/archive
63 Brooklynn206 // Nov 5, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Thank you for all of your thoughtful comments in response to my morning rant, such that it was.
I am disturbed by all the hateful responses to my and others’ posts. We are all blogging on here to get a grip, and join a community of people who know and care about this arson issue. I especially like the comments where people don’t like what is said so they just call the person ’stupid’. Very mature- I mean is this kindergarten folks? Are we calling ourselves a neighborhood? And we think we are going toget something done?
My morning rant was really centered around the fact that I am grateful no one has been killed in these fires (I was not aware until now the man was burned who lived in the 84th street house that was set fire), AND I hope we can all participate in the efforts of our local law enforcement to keep our neighborhood safe so we can prevent senseless loss of life and property in the future. Instead of always relying on the cops or the government to solve every problem, we should make an effort to organize when we see a need for more policing, better education- whatever. I want to work WITH police, not against them. I mean the police are doing what they can, are we?
I do not hate cops, I am not an anarchist, I am not a hippie and I do, for the record, live in Phinney.
I look forward to seeing Whopper, SunsetSu and SBG on the overnight patrols or organizing for more police- I kinda get the sense they sit looking at their computers and registering opinions, rather than taking action.
And, also for the record, Although no one commented on it directly, I also do not think putting a bunch of burnables on an empty lot is a good idea… just a rant.
64 Rob Fellows // Nov 5, 2009 at 3:02 pm
We need a ton of cops watching our streets and alleys at night and early morning until this is solved. It’s not a chronic ongoing problem, it’s a single sick person. Nobody is calling for a massive police buildup forever, but in a crisis, this is their job and they are the professionals - we need to support them to step it up, and then help any way we can.
65 allisonw // Nov 5, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I already got a response from Licata’s office, and he’s already working on it.
66 Troutbumtom // Nov 5, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I moved back into Greenwood proper about 5 years ago. Around that time I swear I remember hearing on the news or reading in the times or pi about an arsonist setting fires the north seattle neighborhoods. Later, I found charring on the shingles of my house in the carport. I hadn’t noticed it before as I had boxes stacked there from the move.
Does anyone else remember that? Did anything ever come of it? I’m thinking it happend in 2004 0r 2005
67 Whopper // Nov 5, 2009 at 4:25 pm
“I already got a response from Licata’s office, and he’s already working on it.”
No doubt he’s investigating the police.
68 AG // Nov 5, 2009 at 5:23 pm
@step it up, not so fast with the surveillance cameras. They’re not actually working particularly well for London etc., and then there’s the staffing problem (that is, someone’s got to be watching and interpreting the images in real time or near it — a huge prospect with any significant number of cameras). Also, it’s well documented that uneven security-cam coverage tends to if anything simply move crime to areas where the cameras ain’t — for instance, our backyards. Since you couldn’t seriously be advocating for mass governemnt surveillance of private property, I suggest that mass camera surveillance isn’t a useful tactic.
@Whopper, please. This isn’t the week for pseudo-political bloviation. Come back when we’re rested and not grieving a fallen officer, kthx.
69 Anna // Nov 5, 2009 at 5:36 pm
“@Whopper, please. This isn’t the week for pseudo-political bloviation. Come back when we’re rested and not grieving a fallen officer, kthx.”
Yes, for that, please feel free to head over to the KOMO/KING/KIRO websites.
70 Christie // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:25 pm
I wonder if those claiming they oppose additional police patrols would feel differently if it was their house/family/life gone in an instant? This isn’t Phinney against Greenwood! It’s all of us looking out for each other to stop this person. This is a numbers game and this sick individual is becoming bolder. It’s a matter of time before they get what’s coming to them. Much thanks to the SPD and Fire Department for putting their lives in danger to keep us safe from people like this! As a community let’s do what we can to help them apprehend this person.
71 Ultrarunner // Nov 5, 2009 at 8:39 pm
@ Susan Helf and Visitor:
While terrible and frightening, what’s happening does NOT constitute terrorism. Just because you find it terrifying doesn’t count.
Terrorism is defined as the use of violence or intimidation in the pursuit of political aims (per the OED). AFAIK this nut job hasn’t left behind any notes indicating he has some sort of political grudge/goal/aim. The IRA, ETA, FARC, Taliban, Christian right to life groups, Tamil Tigers, etc. setting off bombs are acts of terrorism. Some deranged, twisted whack job torching buildings isn’t.
The Feds could be involved a number of different ways. For starters, the SPD can request their assistance. The Feds would also get involved if there was damage to Federal property or if this nut job started leaving behind notes saying he was doing this for some poilitical purpose.
72 SunsetSu // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Ultrarunner,
I disagree with your informal definition of the crime of domestic terrorism.
I took this straight from Wikipedia:
Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: “(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.”[3]
Arson threatens human life and property and violates the law. The series of arsons in Greenwood appear to be intended, in part, to intimidate members of our community. Don’t arsonists like to scare people? Setting fires and terrifying people it is supposed to make an arsonist feel powerful. Granted, post 9/11, the definition of domestic terrorism has been expanded, but in this case, the broad definition is to our benefit.
Why would we NOT want these terrible crimes classified as domestic terrorism? It could mean that the feds would get involved. That could lead to the arsonist being more quickly apprehended.
73 SPG // Nov 5, 2009 at 9:20 pm
brooklyn, I’m happy to see that you’ve backtracked completely off your post from this morning.
74 Harry Tracy // Nov 5, 2009 at 10:53 pm
@Ultrarunner
Susan Helf gets a little jumpy and speaks before she thinks. I tried to compliment her for being such a concerned citizen in providing insight into how to deal with the arsons on N 85th and she followed by accusing me of implying that she was behind the arsons! ??? She had also said that citizen patrols weren’t the answer, now she is advocating for them.
75 Northa85th // Nov 6, 2009 at 10:09 am
Princess Platypus,
“No, the city is not obligated to protect you. Courts have ruled repeatedly that police are not under an obligation to prevent crime.”
That’s silly, your highness. Why have police at all? Why train folks to protect and serve?
What you’re referring to are litigations, I assume, i.e. cities can’t be held liable for dropping the ball in preventing a preventable crime. But get real, out municipalities are how we deliver services to citizens, the most important service being public safety.
The point I made originally is that we are severely underserved in the North End by police services. [example: called the cops twice the other night about a high woman screaming at me from my front steps--no response, only a call back two hours later asking if she was still there]. It’ just a plain fact how little we see police addressing obvious blights in our ‘hood. The community organizing, block-watching, and cameras are great tools, but when it comes to a rash of muggings, kidnappings, and arsons, you need cops on the street. No, not a police lock down, just a presence that says, “you can’t do that sh!t here!”
76 Greenwood Dad // Nov 6, 2009 at 11:20 am
I think we all need to be as present (on the streets) as possible and engage each other, notice what’s up, pay attention. We need pay attention to the sounds in the night as well and report what we see to 911 and our blogs. And we also need a serious police presence…. whatever we can get. Calling into the precinct is always good to help that. As far as patrols…. who is seriously volunteering for a 3 a.m. walkabout? That’s where we need the cops on the street and our phones nearby.
And I have to say, can’t we slow down, think a little deeper and be respectful in these comments? Most of us are, but geeze, it only takes a few extreme (and overly frequent) comment makers to really make the conversation a little tedious. This blog is a great tool to increase our connections, if we use it well. Cheers all! Life is still good.
77 Jennska // Nov 6, 2009 at 12:39 pm
A few things that people should remember:
In the frustration and fear surrounding events like these, it is easy for a citizen patrol to turn into a citizen mobbing. If people organize patrols I highly encourage them to remember that reporting is preferred over assault when suspicious activity is seen.
Also, remember to make sure your insurance is up to date. Fires are horrible things to experience, and the aftermath can become devastating as you realize that you have no clothes to go to work in, and no money to replace those things. Most homeowners are forced to insure by their mortgages, but renters frequently go without insurance. It usually runs under $200/year. I’m not advertising a single company, talk to your friends and coworkers, but call some company within the next couple of days.
Motion activated lighting and other simple measures can frequently make an impact. If nothing else, it can help the citizen patrols see the darkened doorways that seem so poplar with this creep.
78 Omelet House Patron // Nov 6, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I bet the police will at-least drive this person out of the nieghborhood soon. the block is too hot!
Perhaps the Neighborhood Council could hire a private-I to do some surveilance, or something.
Patrols are effective, but eventually backs will be turned at 3am every night.
I’d venture to guess that there’s a decent chance that he/she lives on or just off of N 85th St. For some reason, between 85th and 90th from Stone Ave N and Greenwood Ave is a hotbed for drugs, prostitutes, and other criminals. (thank you cheap motels, Jack in the Box, Am/PM, King County Metro, and slumlords. Perhaps some landlords in that area would cooperate with an investigation and reveal who has recently moved into their buildings. there’s 12 sex offenders who live within a 2 mile radius of 85th and Greenwood, which is dispraportionate to searches around most intersections in the city. http://tinyurl.com/yds6dl2.
Here’s a cool link to a seattle crime map, and you can look at arsons from 2008 to present. Maybe there’s a connection between some of the fires in the U-district, Queen Anne, and now Greenwood. http://spotcrime.com/wa/seattle
85th and Aurora has to be the sketchiest intersection north of Downtown. The bus routes make it easy to get around all parts of the city by main arterials, and there’s likely a revolving door of “residents”.
Anyone seen leaving that AM/PM by bicycle is suspect!
For that matter, anyone seen driving a maroon 84 Subaru Hatchback (sponsor of the 84 winter olympics) is likely a Phinney Ridge lifer, who would tell you that if you don’t know the nosy neighbor on your block, then you live in Greenwood, Greenlake, or Ballard. You can’t get that kind of insight from Google Maps. Not even from the Street view!
79 Rosewood Guitar // Nov 6, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Many thanks to neighbors and friends for their kind words and support. Our total damage from the arson may approach $200,000. We may have to tear down the small building used for guitar lessons. Smoke and water damage to the main store is extensive. All of the guitars and inventory were saved and have been removed for storage and cleaning.
Many thanks to the Seattle Fire Department for their quick response which saved our business. Thanks also to Malka and Pepper at Cobblestone for temporary use of space so that our teachers can continue lessons. We hope to reopen on some scale in 3-4 weeks. We love the Greenwood Community and hope things take a turn for the better. The neighborhood has a lot to offer, community pride goes a long way!
80 john // Nov 6, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Tonight, SFD arson patrols have just called into service. The KOMO 911 scanner can be very instructive on how much is going on behind the scenes to catch this fire bug.
81 Karma by the Cup // Nov 9, 2009 at 2:31 pm
As owners of local espresso drive-thru Karma by the Cup (333 NW 85th), we are outraged by this flurry of arsons and share the fears of the entire community.
Quarterly, our business donates 5% of our profit to a different non-profit/cause, and we will now be donating these funds to the Greenwood Fire Relief Fund.
Please help us help the community by getting the word out.
We look forward to meeting you all at the community meeting on Tuesday night.
Sincerely,
Bre, Sarah, & Sarah
Karma by the Cup
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