Editor’s Note: We couldn’t attend last night’s Early Design Guidance meeting for the proposed Greenwood Fred Meyer development, but neighborhood residents Austin King and Patty O’Hara were kind enough to cover it for us and take pictures. Below is their report. Thanks, Austin and Patty!
Last night at Ballard High School was the Design Review Board’s Early Design Guidance meeting. Originally scheduled to be held in the library, it ended up in a classroom and was so well attended that it spilled out into the hallway. The presentation, board Q&A, public Q&A, and lastly board deliberation lasted much longer than the planned 1 hour and 25 minutes.
Presentation
First Tom Gibbons of Fred Meyer described the project history. He noted that the project goes back to 1997. The current attempt goes back 7 months where they worked with the City Council’s Greenwood Planning Commission as well as community members to arrive at their current plan.
Next GGLO Principal Chris Libby showed the three plans which had been iterated on with input by the community. Options A and B being large big box stores taking up much of the ground level. Lastly he presented Option C, which was the only option to include the residential component and input from the community. This option C was covered exclusively in the community review meeting last Thursday - see PhinneyWood’s recent post.
Option A
Option B
Option C
Lastly GGLO Project Manager Ted Panton walked through some of the design priorities of the project:
- Retail and housing; added density
- Village feel
- Pedestrian friendly
- Private and public open spaces
- Sustainability via LEED certification (This would be the second LEED certified building for Fred Meyer - one was recently built in Portland)
- Peat bog considerations
- Incorporating 1st Ave, which is a designated “Green Street“
An interesting note is that the NW corner of the property is not owned by Greenwood Shopping Center Inc, but the rest of the 8 acre parcel is.
The group then outlined deviations from design guidelines and city rules and gave justifications for the design decisions including:
- Rezoning to allow for the residential on top of the parking garage
- Increase residential on 3rd Ave above the 20% limit for arterial lanes
Design Board Q&A
The northwest design review board, led by Mark Brands, is made up of architects and landscape architects who live in Ballard, Wallingford, Phinney and Greenwood - Bill Singer, Guy Peckhan, Joe Giampietro, and Jean Morgan. Along with Scott Kemp of the Department of Planning, they asked questions to the developers and architects.
Joe’s questions captured much of the design questioning between the board and GGLO / Bruce / Fred Meyer. The first question was if they had considered re-development of the existing store, to which Developer Bruce Lorig answered that the existing building was too old. Next Joe asked if they had considered multiple points of entries. Lastly he mentioned that there was a lot of community interest around connecting intersections and making interesting public spaces. He asked “how does this project respond to this requirement”? Ted responded that the “knuckle” (where ‘morrow lane and 1st street meet) on the Green street was an open space
Public Design Questions/Comments
There were many comments and questions from the audience, the board gave everyone who wanted to the opportunity to speak. Issues were raised about the fundamentals of the project - “Why does the footprint have to be so big?” “Is this compatible with our community?” The scale of the store raised some questions about longterm viability “Where will this put us in 10, 20 or 30 years?” Will it still make sense to have a big box store in the town center?
A key issue raised was the peat bog and Safeway / Tully’s past developments having causing damage to nearby residential structures. Initially the board and the developers presented this as a technical issue to be dealt with by specialists, but it was brought up several times with community member’s afraid for the environment of the bog, as well as “3 football fields” of store further disrupting the already fragile and uneven neighborhood streets and lots.
A common refrain from the audience was around the removal of Greenwood Market. Several people commented that this development does not promote walking but promotes them driving to another grocery store where they can get locally produced goods. Many of these comments overlapped, but included:
- The community values Greenwood Market
- Greenwood Market doesn’t compete directly with Safeway
- Fred Meyer will have to compete with Safeway which is two blocks away
- Fred Meyer, nor other Kroger stores carry specialtiy items and local foods
- Commentors who consider themselves long time, loyal Fred Meyer customers for household items will probably stop shopping there because they will already be leaving the neighborhood to shop for groceries.
Others were excited about the density, and the opportunity this brings to develop the Greenwood core.
As we drilled into the design, issues were raised about access, for both vehicles and pedestrians both to and through the site. The current design has several shifts in elevation, making it difficult to imagine traversing the site in a wheelchair or with a stroller. Pedestrian access into the site is also nebulous especially from the west side of the lot from 85th where the bus stop is and along 3rd. Vehicular access raises similar issues. The primary access points to the parking garage are on 87th which is a narrow, residential street. Another access point for cars is from 85th which seems like it might cause congestion on an already crowded street. Where to direct the delivery trucks is another big question.
Design Board Deliberation
After the public comments, the board met to give the applicants direction on where to go next. For this part, anyone who wanted to could stay with the caviat that they had to be quiet. This is a group of professional architects, who live in the general area. Some of whom were more familiar with the current state of the area than others. All had listened to the community and offered their own insights as well.
They quickly came to a unanimous decision that the project team needs to come back with 3 real, viable options. While GGLO presented 3 options, it was clear that A and B were throwaways and the only viable option was C. The parameters of the design review require 3 and we were really only presented with 1. The board continued to layout what they wanted to see in the options:
- Explore options for the massing of height and scale. Currently the largest portion of the design - the 3 story parking lot with 3 stories of housing on top - exists on the 87th st side, where the existing development is single family residential. Considerations should include looking at the light patterns and matching the scale to the existing houses across the street.
- Explore a two-layer store - Fred Meyer has put forth that this is not viable as 2 level stores do not bring in as much revenue, but the board agreed that they would like them to explore the option anyways to possibly address some of the other design challenges.
- Look at providing more entrances into the store, especially on the 85th St side. The current design shows one primary entrance.
- Review the vehicle entrances into the space. The board agreed that there is no one great place to direct the traffic so the best option is to filter the traffic through multiple entrances - they should explore that a little more.
- Look at how the space aligns with the existing neighborhood - how can the vehicle throughways match up with the existing grid to bring more continuity to the surrounding areas - like 2nd Ave to Sandel Park and Morrow lane to Greenwood Ave.
What’s next?
We can assume another Early Design Guidance meeting will be scheduled to review a full “3 option design”.
The city of Seattle, represented by Scott Kemp was collecting names and addresses of anyone interested to keep them informed. If you want to be put on the mailing list, send your US mailing address to Scott Kemp (scott.kemp@seattle.gov).
Also the Greater Greenwood Design & Development Advocacy Group was collecting names and addresses for their mailing list. Contact gg.ddag@gmail.com get on their mailing list.
18 responses so far ↓
1 MonkeyPilot // Jul 14, 2009 at 12:43 pm
It’s good to hear that the two obviously throwaway plans were rejected and will be replaced with two more-viable options. It doesn’t really sound like FM has really addressed any of the questions around increased traffic or the impact of the project on local water flow.
Thanks for a great summary!
2 etta // Jul 14, 2009 at 12:56 pm
The Board did the right thing…they listened and they were thoughtful. I am hopeful that this plan is now on track for significant improvements. And thank you to the representative of the Greater Greenwood Design & Development Advocacy Group for making such a clear, well-reasoned, objective and passionate comment. I’m sure that helped move the Board in the right direction.
3 James // Jul 14, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Yes! Very happy to hear that FM need to come back with some viable options instead of what they had originally.
There are a lot of smart, talented people thinking and working on this project and I’ve no doubt they can come up with something that meets both FM and the community needs.
4 Katherine Ransel // Jul 14, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I want to be on an electronic email list concerning this project please.
5 Amy J // Jul 14, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Wow — as a former resident of Columbia City and having been through a design review process for the Rainier Vista project (I lived within the 300 ft. notification boundary of the project) , I am really impressed that 1) they let all people who wanted to speak do so, and 2) that the design board is actually listening to key things such as traffic flows and access points and trying to “fit” in with neighborhood landmarks/destinations (parks).
The points about Greenwood Market offering local product and specialty items that Fred Meyer does not is strong. However, about the walkability — has any research been done / tracked about trips/traffic? I would love to know how many people access Greenwood Market and FM (as well as other stores) and find out how the numbers shake out for foot traffic (and was the total trip via foot/bike or shared w/ bus) and then how many people arrive by car.
6 M Hurst Frye // Jul 14, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Good job all of you who were able to be there! Thank you!
I look forward to knowing more about their plans for the peat bog, past it will be ‘dealt with by specialists’. Any chance we will hear about how they will address not sinking our homes?
7 etta // Jul 14, 2009 at 3:22 pm
@6, my impression was that they are still evaluating the peat bog’s scope and trying to figure out how to maintain and respect it. I believe there is a recently developed City “guidance” on the topic. Kate M. could tell us more, I’m sure.
8 T Barreras // Jul 14, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I am extremely sad about Greenwood Market leaving as a result of this project. Are they planning to move nearby?
9 Judith Wood // Jul 14, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I realize that I’m probably in the minority here, but I am looking forward to a full-service Fred Meyer grocery store in my neighborhood. I drive to the Ballard store to shop now and I would prefer to walk or make a shorter drive from my house. They do offer many organic, local, and alternative products in addition to the mainstream groceries. The reason I shop there is I did my own “market basket” survey of neighborhood stores, based on my family’s buying needs and they were the clear winner. It too some time to get used to the store, but I am definitely a convert. Greenwood Market only works for quick convenience trips if I’m already out in the car (for walking it would be Ken’s), but they do not sell the scope of products I need, nor do they offer the convenience of the range of non-food items I can get in the same trip at Fred Meyer.
10 Tonya Gustafson // Jul 14, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Judith, you are not alone. My husband and I feel the same way.
When we first moved to the neighborhood we were shocked at the number of grocery stores. We quickly began to compare prices at Safeway, QFC, PCC, and Trader Joes and found that Fred Meyer was by far our best grocery for organic food quality, price, and selection. We are extremely excited about this development as it will allow us to walk to our favorite grocery store. We are also thrilled that this will bring other stores to the neighborhood. We love Greenwood for its diversity and friendly atmosphere and think that this “village” would be a great addition!
I do hope, however, that the traffic on 85th and multiple entrances are strongly considered. It think that they should look at the Ballard Fred Meyer’s three entrances as a model for this project. It would be nice to have quite a few entrances to help direct the traffic away from 85th as much as possible.
11 JNPasco // Jul 15, 2009 at 8:21 am
As a resident of the greenwood area, I vlue the fact that Geenwood Market is an independant grodcery store that carries items the others don’t. For those who haven’t made the connection yet, Fred Meyer (which I also value in the neighborhood, dont get me wrong) = Kroger. QFC (which others on this thread have put forth as another grocery “alternative”) = Kroger. Lots of choice there. Safeway a few blocks away is also available, but in my mind, Safeway = Kroger (huge national chains, no local items). Granted, Greenwood Market cant compete with all of their prices and “Advantage shopper” discounts, but I do like the choices they offer. I also like not having to enter my phone number, zip code, social security number and mothers maiden name if I want to get the price that is shown on the sticker.
I’m all in favaor of getting rid of the acres of parking on 85th, and the general idea of redeveloping the site, but I would like to see the locally owned grocery stay.
My two cents.
12 sad neighbor // Jul 15, 2009 at 12:30 pm
I have to agree with JNPasco, very well stated. The loss of Greenwood Market will only make me get in the car to go to Central Market in Shoreline rather than continue to walk for my groceries when it is turned to a Fred Meyer grocery. I like supporing the local business and getting the variety Greenwood/Central Market offer in terms of local, fresh produce and foods. I don’t see the need for two megastores (QFC and Fred Meyer) to offer the ability to purchase a patio set, a BBQ pit, and groceries.
13 Bummer Boy // Jul 15, 2009 at 6:38 pm
I too don’t want this development. Greenwood Market has more or less what I want in a grocery store. Fred Meyer grocery stores are too similar to crappy Safeway and QFC’s around here. I will have to huff it to PCC, Ballard Market, or Farmer’s Markets to get locally grown/produced foods. Sure, it would be nice if they planted a few trees in the existing ugly parking lot. I also think it is ridiculous to tear down two perfectly adequate buildings so they can make their huge development look nice.
14 Seattlejo // Jul 16, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I love Greenwood Market as a specialty shop, but to be honest I can’t afford to shop there both because of the limited size of the store and the higher prices.
Even when I could afford the prices, the lack of a deli, real meat counter and bakery had me going up to Central Market biweekly.
15 R // Jul 20, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Is Fred Meyer planning to purchase this land? If no, then the title of this should be…
“Greenwood Shopping Center Inc Proposal (To Replace Greenwood Market With Larger Fred Meyer).”
I wonder what Greenwood Market (http://www.TownAndCountryMarkets.com) would look like if they were not operating on a short-tem lease. It must be hard to justify making improvements and doing things for the community when you may be evicted soon.
P.S. I too also like not having to enter my phone number, zip code, social security number and mothers maiden name if I want to get the price that is shown on the sticker.
16 Tom Gibbons // Jul 24, 2009 at 9:28 am
This is Tom Gibbons, Director of Real Estate Development for Fred Meyer. I’ve seen many of you out at the recent community meetings and I want you to know I appreciate your interest and hear your concerns. Your feedback has already made a tremendous difference in our plans and I’m confident that together we will create something for everyone to benefit from and enjoy.
I’m writing to clear up some inaccurate information in the comments here.
Fred Meyer does purchase local produce whenever it is available – we call it Northwest Grown, and our Northwest Grown and Northwest Grown Organic selections are some of the largest available. The new store, in addition to our other Seattle-area stores, receive produce from farms in the Puyallup Valley and Mt. Vernon areas, such as Sterino Farms, Carpinito and Mosby Bros. Farms, to name a few. We also work with Organically Grown Company (a coop) to receive produce from area organic farms, such as Ralph’s Greenhouse, J4 Ranch and Valley Pride. (The new store will offer one of the largest selections of organic products in North Seattle, as well as a high quality deli and specialty items like gourmet cheeses, meats, and sushi.)
I understand that many people have enjoyed shopping at Greenwood Market over the years and will be sad to see it go. I think it’s important to point out that the folks at Fred Meyer are also your neighbors—we’ve been in Greenwood since 1975 and 60% of the employees at this store live within two miles. And Fred Meyer is a union shop, offering our workers one of the most generous benefit packages in the retail industry. This means all workers, including part-time, receive health care benefits. And, while we are a division of Kroger, Fred Meyer has corporate headquarters in Portland, OR where we have 1,800 employees including an executive team whose members have been with Fred Meyer for 25 years or more. We are still a Northwest company.
Finally, there has been much concern over issues surrounding the impact of the new store on traffic, the peat bog, etc. and all of these issues will be addressed through appropriate documentation and analysis required as part of the City’s permitting process. There are regulations—like the new peat ordinance—that were not in place in the past, but have been implemented to avoid the problems that have arisen with prior construction projects.
Thanks again for all of your interest. If you have any questions or want to get on-going information from Fred Meyer about what’s happening, feel free to email me at tom.gibbons@fredmeyer.com.
17 R // Jul 24, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Bog comment:
Regarding the 10 July 2009 meeting on the planned displacement of Greenwood Market,
(http://www.phinneywood.com/2009/07/10/100-people-attend-fred-meyer-presentation/) included the following:
“One nearby homeowner said he was assured his house would be fine when the Safeway was built. I had to spend quite a bit of money fixing my house,” he said. He wanted to know who was financially accountable if something happened to his house because the groundwater level in the bog was affected.”
He was told of “the new peat ordinance”.
However, the question remains…
What happens when his house sinks?
Is the onus on the homeowner to prove who caused it? Does the ordinance have any teeth?
18 Stan Andreasen // Aug 6, 2009 at 3:22 pm
I SAY GO FOR IT ! I WAS NOT ABLE TO MAKE THE MEETING, BUMMER. I JUST HOPE THE EMPLOYEES THAT WORK AT EITHER FRED MEYER or GREENWOOD MARKET WILL BE ABLE TO FIND NEW JOBS. I THINK THE NEW FACILITY WILL ENHANCE THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I OPERATE A SMALL BAMBOO NURSERY TWO BLOCKS SOUTH OF GREENWOOD MARKET. OUR COMPANY NAME IS —– BEAUTY AND THE BAMBOO —- WE ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC BY APPOINTMENT. WE’VE BEEN SELLING BAMBOO SINCE 1992 —- I HOPE THE STREET PARKING OUT FRONT OF OUR HOME BUSINESS IS NOT JAMMED WITH TO MANY CARS FROM THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SINCERELY, STAN ANDREASEN
CERTIFIED, LICENSED, BONDED, INSURED.
GROWING AND SELLING BAMBOO SINCE 1992 — WE CONSULT, DELIVER, INSTALL ROOT BARRIER AND BAMBOO PLANTS FOR PRIVACY. WHEN IT COMES TO BAMBOO, CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL. CHECK OUT OUR WEB-SITE — beautyandthebamboo.com
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