49 responses so far ↓

• 1 Neighbor // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:01 am

  I think Fred Meyer just lost me as a customer. How can they be so obnoxious to push for a single-entry, “big box” design in an economic environment filled with similar empty monstrosities, which are now virtually — if not completely — unmovable, unleaseable and unconvertible for their current site-owners? Are they living in the early 1990s? Do their Powers That Be think they’re immune to the ills that have plagued Circuit City, Joe’s, Mervyn’s, etc., and have left big-box corpses across the country — waiting either for demolition or for a sad-sack church, flea market or senior center to sign a pity lease? Excusing the aesthetics argument, this is pure bad judgment by the Fred Meyer folks on all levels.

• 2 james // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:31 am

  Me too. I won’t ever go to Fred Meyer again.

• 3 tweets // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:39 am

  Dang…one of the reaons I go to the Greenwood FM instead of the Ballard one is that Greenwood doesn’t feel a vast wasteland, inside and out. The current building needs some sprucing but not super-sizing.

• 4 annoyed // Apr 17, 2009 at 9:14 am

  totally ridiculous. who wants to buy groceries at a fred meyer? so our choices will be that or the safeway? super.

  i’m all for development, but it needs to fit in to the neighborhood. i like the new piper village stuff. more of that, less big box.

  write to the city council & mayor. i have. they’ve messed up ballard and now the same will happen here.

• 5 Chris // Apr 17, 2009 at 9:21 am

  So is the Greenwood Market lease for sure not going to be renewed? Are they planning to relocate? I love that store, it’s local, walking distance and the people are so friendly. That really sucks!

  Can someone post the people we can contact to voice our opinions? This is kind of last minute notice and we have plans on Saturday so we won’t make it to the land use meeting.

• 6 Tiktok // Apr 17, 2009 at 10:00 am

  The Greenwood Market is by far my favorite grocery store. I’ll be very sad if it dies.

• 7 AMC // Apr 17, 2009 at 10:12 am

  Yeah, I’m for saving Greenwood Market. The people there are awesome; I’ve never had to wait in line for more than a few minutes (as opposed to Safeway where the lines are long and there is never any bread).

  Also, some better greenspace & walking paths/sidewalks to and through the Fred Meyer space would be great.

• 8 Kat // Apr 17, 2009 at 11:02 am

  I’m surprised to hear of their development. I’ve talked to the staff about all their sales going on lately and they all say nothing is selling. If something doesn’t sell, they mark it down, mark it down again and then if it still doesn’t sell they donate it to someplace! They say they have seen lots of items go to the donation truck. I don’t see why a “big box” would help their situation. This is Seattle not the burbs, we don’t like the big box stuff.

  I’m going to miss the greenwood market. The items I buy are always a good $2-5 cheaper here then at Safeway, QFC or Albersons.

• 9 Chris // Apr 17, 2009 at 11:19 am

  The more I think about this the more infuriating it is. Why mess with the Greenwood Market, it seems to be a profitable well liked neighborhood store that has an attractive store front. You can’t say that for anything around it, the Fred Meyer, the vacant store across the street next and the dance club. Are they going to end up kicking out the Greenwood Market prematurely and then have another vacant store like they are doing in Ballard? I tried looking at the link posted in this story and the scanned in figures are too blurry to make out.

• 10 Dawn // Apr 17, 2009 at 12:21 pm

  oh goody just what we need, a giant “big box” Fred Meyer….. NO THANK YOU

  put it on AURORA where it belongs!!!

• 11 Mr. B in Ballard // Apr 17, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  To all:

  I am one of the professional volunteers on the Advocacy Group. A few of you had asked where you could contact our team if you can’t make it tomorrow. We have set up an email address that we’ll be handing out tomorrow for folks to do just that. Please indicate if you’d like to receive periodic updates.

  that email is: gg.ddag@gmail.com

  Just as a side note, we are still early in the process, and have been focusing on the re-zoning the area first – to try to address some of the root causes of the really mediocre proposals that the neighborhood has seen there so far. Other efforts with regard to the mix of stores, or the fate of the Market, will hopefully be addressed as things move forward – possibly by other groups within the GCC.

  Thanks!

  Evan Bourquard
  Greater Greenwood DDAG

• 12 Paul M // Apr 17, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  Save the Greenwood Market!!!

• 13 Heather // Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 pm

  We do need to save Greenwood Market. Being walking distance to a small quality market is the main reason I have lived in the neighborhood as long as I have.

• 14 DC // Apr 17, 2009 at 1:06 pm

  If there was ever a time to band together as a community and officially petition against the development of another big-box monstrosity, now is the time.

  Can the Greenwood Market compete against the newly-expanded Ken’s, plus the two smaller grocery/ delis that have opened in the last few months? YES. Please keep smaller shops in business – a Fred Meyer grocery store is NOT what Phinney/ Greenwood needs.

• 15 Fnarf // Apr 17, 2009 at 1:17 pm

  I love the Greenwood Market, and while I realize the Freddy’s isn’t doing well, it’s the only Fred’s I ever go in. I HATE the Ballard one, and hate FM groceries in general; they’re like Wal-Marts.

  As far as “the mix of stores” goes, I wouldn’t get too hung up on specific names or even categories. None of the retail that’s going to open there, or at Piper Village, is still going to be there in 15 years, I’ll bet. What’s important is to make sure the retail spaces are ACTUALLY USABLE, i.e., narrow and deep — not wide and shallow. Unless you want to have an endless succession of Desert Sun Tanning, Verizon, T-Mobil, Sprint, Check Masters, and Starbucks. No, I don’t want a goddamn cupcake shop!

  Look at the retail development that’s gone into the area in the past decade: the new is 100% disastrous, the horrible new “fake urban” Safeway, the Walgreens. You think Piper is going to reverse that? No way. The old is the only place where life exists — Antika, Olive You, Tacqueria Tequila, the tiendas along Greenwood — what makes those places interesting, and the Walgreens or Ballard FM so soul-destroying?

• 16 broken arm // Apr 17, 2009 at 1:47 pm

  the paradox is that FM would not be considering the change to a big box grocery type store except for the fact that is where customers are shopping…….(same with safeway, same with walgreens). I moan and complain all the time about the loss of small friendly stores where you can get in and out easily, but mostly at myself……because I am part of the problem. I don’t ever give quality control of my soul over to the market place.

• 17 Chris // Apr 17, 2009 at 1:48 pm

  “Eighty-six communities across the US have stopped Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and other big box retailers from locating in their town. Here’s how they did it.”
  http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=762
  Sounds like Mr. Bourquard is on the right track with the rezoning but the other half of what they suggest is community involvment. In Gig Harbor 14,000 people signed a petition to stop Walmart from opening a store there. I’d be willing to hit the pavement.

• 18 Philanthus // Apr 17, 2009 at 2:36 pm

  > How can they be so obnoxious…

  Because they’re Kroger. Freddies has been going downhill ever since Kroger bought them out, They’ve been trying to force the big-box thing for the last five years or so, temporarily put off because Greenwood Market already had a lease until 2011(?). I grew up in the midwest, where even 40 years ago, Kroger was the absolute worst grocery store in existence. My mother would have let us starve rather than buy even canned goods from that literally filthy chain. Even if they were a good company, any profits they make from us leave the area and go east. They have no interest is being a good citizen here.

  I don’t have a car plus I don’t walk all that well, and Greenwood Market is the one of the things that lets me do that comfortably. Ballard Market and Kens are too far to go for groceries, and I have no love of safeway or any other big chain. I also don’t want the extra hit of more noise, traffic, bright lights, and other pollution that it will bring.

  I’m certainly in favor of doing something to put a stop to the wreckers. Is it time to start putting up signs?

• 19 D. // Apr 17, 2009 at 3:10 pm

  One of my priorities for the location that I live in is being within walking distance to a market that I like. Since I’m renting, I guess that means it’s goodbye Greenwood.

• 20 Whopper // Apr 17, 2009 at 3:48 pm

  What do tweakers need with bananas at Fred Meyer? Just double the size of the pseudoephedrine aisle and start selling Mountain Dew in 3 gallon bottles and everyone will be happy.

• 21 etta // Apr 17, 2009 at 4:09 pm

  Haven’t we been thru this before? And FM backed down?

• 22 Kate Martin // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:34 pm

  If you have 2 – 5 years of stamina, I could really use the help.

• 23 abs123 // Apr 18, 2009 at 7:38 am

  Just want to echo the love for Greenwood Market. It is the best grocery store, with friendly staff and a good selection. I don’t want to see it go!

• 24 liz // Apr 18, 2009 at 8:40 am

  I do shop at Fred Meyer as it is now, but would never buy groceries there. I think of it as a small, local department store. Please, please, no big box!! What’s needed I think is something that will be visually interesting and useful to pedestrians. (I’ve always been disappointed in the way Walgreens and Safeway developed, with nothing of interest facing the sidewalks. I don’t shop at either.)

• 25 Paul M // Apr 18, 2009 at 10:11 am

  You guys at Phinneywood should open a thread on the forum about this subject…..

• 26 sprizee // Apr 18, 2009 at 12:04 pm

  I regularly shop at the Greenwood Market and will be really disappointed if it closes.

• 27 Carrie // Apr 18, 2009 at 12:27 pm

  I worked at Greenwood Market for almost 2 years, and I loved it. I left last year to pursue more time with my little family.

  The lease is up in October (?) of 2011. The owners of the land want to sell it to FM so that they can have their big store.

  The Nakata’s, who own Town and Country Markets, have tried negotiating with the owners to find some sort of solution to staying in the area. So far, they have been shot down, numerous times. One of the options they were also looking into was finding another location for Greenwood Market, but when I left last year, that too looked grim.

  Sadly, Greenwood Market will be closing. I know it does not replace it in any way, but there is Ballard Market and Central Market in Shoreline, within the same company.

  They also acquired land out in the Sammamish Plateau and will be building a new Central Market out there as well.

• 28 Philanthus // Apr 18, 2009 at 1:17 pm

  Is there a chance that rezoning to stop a big box of any sort would stop kroger/fm from wanting to buy the property at all? Can that be done in time?

• 29 Trix // Apr 18, 2009 at 2:43 pm

  I live in Ballard but my mom lives in Greenwood. Like the Ballard Market, the Greenwood Market has no shortage of good produce and the bakery is fantastic.
  Ken’s Market is a joke, and it would be a shame if Greenwood was left with only that as an alternative to Safeway and FM. BTW, the Ballard FM is a mess, total madness. Every time I go into that big, noisy box my blood pressure goes up.
  Fight the good fight, Greenwood.

• 30 etta // Apr 18, 2009 at 3:12 pm

  Too bad Greenwood Market can’t take over the now abandoned Greenwood DT of Licensing building or property.

• 31 Super Shopper // Apr 18, 2009 at 5:37 pm

  Trix-

  There is no bakery at Greenwood Market.

• 32 Mondo // Apr 18, 2009 at 6:40 pm

  Just wanted to add my voice of support for the Greenwood Market. Personally, I don’t care so much what Fred Meyer builds, *as long as* the Greenwood Market remains there.

• 33 Trix // Apr 18, 2009 at 7:27 pm

  They have baked goods. Sorry, didn’t mean to imply they had an actual bakery. It’s all brought in from outside bakeries.
  Same for the Ballard Market. It’s still better stuff than you find in Safeway.

• 34 Northa85th // Apr 19, 2009 at 8:23 am

  This is madness! FM’s management has gotta be insane. A food depot in the middle of Greenwood!?!? I’ll hit the streets against this.

  When we moved to the neighborhood, the spouse and I would remark that it was an odd development: a cozy family-owned GM next to a corporate and soulless FM. We’ve always feared for GM because of the way outfits like FM operate.

  And speaking of soulless, shame on the landowner! Don’t developers have a social conscience? Our community should hold this landowner’s feet to the fire.

  Does anyone know if the T&C folks actually want to keep the GM store? If it’s support they need, let’s give it to ‘em.

• 35 Susan // Apr 19, 2009 at 9:51 am

  Our family loves Greenwood Market. The staff is friendly and there is a great community feeling when you walk in. To me, it’s the heart of the neighborhood. We don’t want a big box Fred Meyer in the middle of our neighborhood. Greenwood Market serves our family’s grocery needs just fine and is walking distance from our home. FM has no soul after Kroger took over. I think we need to work together to save Greenwood Market. If FM wants to make their store more profitable, they could work with Greenwood Market and come up with something interesting and community friendly, a playground, some walking paths, expand their natural food section, have a little cafe. Big Box is DEFINITELY not the answer. Why does Kroger think that we live in the city and not the burbs? We don’t want big box in our neighborhood. Save Greenwood Market AND if FM wants to improve their profits work with Greenwood Market and make the whole block more community friendly.

• 36 Amelia // Apr 19, 2009 at 9:52 am

  Save Greenwood Market!!! WAH WAH WAH!!!

  Amelia, 6 yrs. old

• 37 Kate Martin // Apr 19, 2009 at 12:46 pm

  At this point, we are working (Greenwood Community Council Land Use Committee) to stay in the global view. It doesn’t take me 2 seconds to go off on a bunch of very relevant tangents, but the underlying zoning is the up front issue right now.

  The site within our urban village was left with auto oriented C1-40 zoning and we’re working to get a rezone happening that would change it to Neighborhood Commercial. The City Council and Mayor think we have to collaborate with the apparent leaseholder to do a rezone, so we’re doing that. I think it’s ridiculous that they left us with C1 zoning in urban villages. For 10 years they thought the developer would want to negotiate what they call a contract rezone to fully develop the site and twice we’ve seen rediculous proposals to not do so…one in 2004 with a tunnel as the pedestrian connection across the site E-W and lately one with a 14′ grade change as the pedestrian connection. And yet, the city did not rezone it and now unless everyone collaborates, we don’t get it either. All of this in direct conflict with the Growth Management Act, Seattle’s Comprehensive Plan, and Neighborhood Planning to date and that doesn’t even mention what we know to be true about climate change and all the policies in response to that.

  Taller neighborhood mixed use zoning would encourage a more dense, walkable, compact urban village. That is what we’re proposing for this site and other sites that join up with the main streets including across 85th since it would be good if both sides of 85th worked (and both sides of 87th and both sides of 3rd Ave NW). NC 40 doesn’t quite do the trick because it is too expensive to do structured parking and at 40 feet it’s hard to justify from a developers point of view. At 65 feet, it pencils out.

  If you look at the draft of the rezone proposal we put together, you can see how we compare benefits of NC zoning over C zoning and in general the impacts of the two approaches.

  NC 65 zoning would bring the verticality that pays the developers back and it would gives us some density where we planned it. Again, NC40 brings us some of that, but it does not provide adequate incentive to develop it in many cases.

  We drew a case study for site configuration as well because a human scale walkable / bikeable circulation grid and a meaningful town square are something we don’t want to miss. There are other ways to lay it out, but we did one to illustrate how it might go.

  There are many issues to debate, especially the issue of strong locally owned retailers wanting to rebuild and getting denied. But, right at this moment the rezone aspect needs to be teed up to prevent the completely ridiculous from happening – 8 acres of 1 story cheap auto oriented box. That denies us from having the town center urban village we have been looking forward to.

  Greenwood Shopping Center Inc. (represented by Gary Brunt who lives in Olympia) is working with FM to turn the 600′ x 600′ portion of their property from 1st to 3rd and 85th to 87th over to Fred Meyer to do as they wish. The reason they want to do this is that they don’t make much money off of FMs lease because it is very much a lease that favors FM and Gary thinks that it’s “safe” to just turn it over to Kroger and not worry about the neighborhood or the property values or the potential return on investment to Greenwood Shopping Center if it developed as the urban village it’s supposed to be. Much more money would be made by all those involved if they took a walkable urban village approach to it and not a big box supercenter approach. They say money matters, but they sell that concept short…I imagine not having land costs really puts people in a position to make decisions that those of us that paid for land would not consider.

  In general, GSCI does not have development experience. The little Sedges project is Gary’s first development and even that had many other players who made it come together. All the PR he has invested in the environmental spin on that project seems very meaningless when you know he’s the same guy selling us down the river of a big box supercenter.

  Greenwood Shopping Center Inc. is owned by the original descendants of homesteaders from 100 years ago, so the land was free as far as I know. Also, they vacated 2nd Ave NW through the site in the 50s, so they got that for free as well. I believe and many of the family share holders who don’t get to vote believe that they have an important community role to play in how this property develops in addition to looking after a better return on investment that more vertical development would bring.

  Gary brings his version of what should be to the directors and trustees and they buy off on it. At some point, there’s a duty to produce a return on investment, but curiously, that gets little attention.

  I believe he has failed them in not mentioning that the urban village potential of their land is sold far short by putting all the eggs in a FM auto oriented big box supercenter basket.

  FMs lease was to end in 2022, so their leverage was actually waning. Greenwood Market and Bartell are both stores that want to stay there and rebuild, but without long term land leases, they can’t do that.

  FM is no longer the company they were at one time and now are in their thirsty quest to drop supercenters anywhere and everywhere. The talk they talk is about how much people love their stores and how they have to have the grocery store in the box and one entry is the only thing that works. It feels most times like I’m talking to people in another century.

  They proposed some housing for the northern edge of the site, but the density wasn’t much more than we have with single family on that much land and that is not enough housing to support the retail.

  The customers would be coming in cars en masse – most supercenters draw 10,000 vehicle trips per day weekday and up to double that on the weekends.

  I wonder if they have read about climate change, transit oriented density, compact walkable communities or anything sustainable at all. They discuss a green roof. A green roof on a sprawling big box that underutilizes and underdevelops an 8.25 acre site is not green.

  Right now, I think we should get the right zoning in place. Next we should consider the chemistry of the business district and what GSCI can do to serve the businesses and the neighborhood before they sell us down the river with their idea of a “safe” tenant.

  -Kate

• 38 Whopper // Apr 19, 2009 at 5:40 pm

  I would fight this too. Most of these big box stores – FM, Walmart – only attract the lowest class of people. In order to make our neighborhood and homes more valuable we must fight this kind of development. We need more expensive independent boutique shops: Organic foods, yoga, fancy French bakeries. Anything that would help drive the working class further north in search of fast food and junky stores like FM filled with cheap Chinese c**p.

• 39 Vagrant // Apr 19, 2009 at 6:06 pm

  Agree with Whopper, the people at Freddies in Ballard are pretty trashy. Good luck getting an urban village, I love this kind of gentrification. Lots of fancy independent stores, open air cafes: it’ll be just like Paris with well heeled and well dressed customers. No riff raff in pumped out CO2 machines, just Dutch bicycles.

• 40 Gozer // Apr 19, 2009 at 7:12 pm

  Kate, what can we as a neighborhood do?

• 41 Michael // Apr 20, 2009 at 7:44 am

  wow, sounds like a bit elitism creeping in here… i agree, big box is not the way to go. But to push for expensive independent boutique shops to drive the working class further north is ridiculous. saying people at freddies are trashy, well they are your neighbors. all sorts of folks shop there.
  i would rather have FM upgrade their store, rather than tear down and build a big box, leave greenwood market (even though i don’t ever shop there).

  somehow, someone needs to get in with the owner of the land under GM, and find out how to convince them that selling to Kroger is the wrong, that they can get a better return keeping GM there. For them it is a financial decision.

• 42 Kate Martin // Apr 20, 2009 at 8:52 am

  I don’t have any high-end aspirations for development or desire for expensive anything, personally. That is not a necessary component and is basically economically unsustainable in many ways. If configuration and chemistry of the commercial components are solidly successful and the architecture and materials are reasonably decent – modest is fine – just good bones, then we’d be doing well without becoming something that winds up flipping the entire neighborhood upside down.

  I don’t want a box with a peripheral fringe disowned area / ghetto around it. I don’t think that’s healthy or safe. The edges are as essential as the core in making places people want to inhabit.

  A well-loved and successful locally owned grocer is a very healthy component of a town center anytime and anyplace.

  Housing above grocery stores has worked for hundreds of years or more.

• 43 etta // Apr 20, 2009 at 9:28 am

  pssst…Whopper’s making another “joke”. Ignore him.

• 44 Marc R. // Apr 20, 2009 at 9:57 am

  Chris @ 17: Yes, Gig Harbor blocked Walmart, but they allowed Costco – they realized the difference between a company that creates jobs with real wages and benefits and a company that basically runs a sweatshop at the retail level.

  Whopper and Vagrant: your sarcasm was lost on some of these nice folks.

  And to all of you comparing Fred Meyer to Walmart: You have to be kidding me – have you been in a Walmart lately? They’re dirty, disorganized, and not friendly. Shabby goods with boxes torn open litter the shelves. It’s like shopping right before the apocalypse.

• 45 Neighbor57 // Apr 20, 2009 at 2:31 pm

  Kate-
  Thank you for your dedication, focus, and prudent nature on this issue. I dread the big box, auto-oriented FM as a nearby homeowner, a community-oriented pedestrian (and shopper), an environmentalist, and as a mother. It is BAD BAD BAD on so many levels. Your points about the City’s priorities are good ones… is there anything we can do to leverage any of the Mayor’s task forces? Please let us all know specifically what we can do as a neighborhood and when. Will it mean anything to have so many voices heard?

• 46 Kate Martin // Apr 20, 2009 at 5:03 pm

  I’m meeting with the committee tomorrow and now that we have the draft rezone proposal done, we can begin to address other issues.

  I posted the current draft of the document at this address:

  http://groups.google.com/group/walkable-greenwood-urban-village/files

  We’d like to get the city moving on the legislative rezone so we can focus on other things (which obviously there’s a fair number of). We’ll get nowhere at design review later on if the site is zone is not changed from C1 auto oriented commercial to NC neighborhood commercial.

  It’s a red carpet rollout for a blank box as it is in C1

  Pressure from the neighborhood to do the rezone will be usefull and I’ll send out a message with when, where, and how with that.

  Meanwhile please read the draft proposal and send me any feedback.

  We need to schedule some more meetings to outreach to more neighbors and businesses and will do that soon.

  Thank you.

  Kate

• 47 Kate Martin // Apr 20, 2009 at 5:08 pm

  Sorry, I forgot to say that the draft rezone proposal document is in 2 parts:

  pages 1 – 10 and then pages 11-23. That was done to limit the files sizes, but if you could read the whole thing I would appreciate it.

  If you click on “date uploaded” thet will be at the top of the files list.

  http://groups.google.com/group/walkable-greenwood-urban-village/files

• 48 Brian // Apr 20, 2009 at 9:31 pm

  On page 18 of the proposal the mayor’s name is spelled wrong. (“Nickels” not “Nichols”)

• 49 Whopper // Apr 21, 2009 at 6:06 am

  “I don’t have any high-end aspirations for development or desire for expensive anything, personally. ”

  Oh course you don’t ; )

  It’ll just happen by ‘accident’. Afterall, building nice neighborhoods never attracts wealthier residents ; O

  Bring on our gentrified ‘urban village’!

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